Youth Sports

[Rocky]

We're not talking highschool though, we're talking little league stuff, grades shouldn't matter then - grades in HS should definitely be taken seriously and counted. For 2 reasons, one is what Biggin hit on and the second is when you're in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th grade you probably haven't been evaluated and placed into your reading/math level...thus your grades might suffer if you should be in another class or book.

did you just say grades dont matter in elementary school?? wow.......

[CoeburnCane]

did you just say grades dont matter in elementary school?? wow.......

Why yes...yes he did.

And that's complete and utter enabling-speak. Grades matter from day fargin one. Now I'll give this concession before I go any further: I had classes where I made C's and learned more than in a class where I made straight A's. There are circumstances like learning disabilities and course requirements that have to be taken into consideration.

HOWEVER...just like was said earlier, "trying really hard" doesn't cut it. The kids would know that they need good enough grades to be eligible to play. If they don't get there, and their parents/teachers don't motivate them to get the grades needed, then they lose a privilege--that privelege being playing time. Maybe that will motivate the child to do better and the parents/teachers to help out more.

It's the exact reverse of what people have said for years in youth sports: Little Jimmy Schoolbook tries really hard, but he's not just as good as Little Johnny Fivestar who is really good w/o trying half as hard. Should we give Little Jimmy Schoolbook more PT than Little Johnny Fivestar purely on the basis of effort put out? No--absolutely not.

People need to learn that what they do and how they perform is what matters. It doesn't matter who you are, who your parents are, what your effort is/isn't...bottom line is do you perform and take care of your responsibilities. If so, great. If not, the consequences are waiting. That's real life, and our kids get sheltered for far too long from real life, IMO...even to the point of never being really able to embrace it and take responsibility for it.

[R13]

What was meant was, they shouldn't matter when it comes to sports. And yes I'll stand by that for the reasons that were posted, hard to make decent grades when you haven't been placed into what you're supposed to be. Wasn't that hard to get, never said anything about in HS or they should get a free ride because of [insert reason] or that grades should be written off at all then. But at that age and grade level, you can't put that much focus on grades when it comes to sports.

[CoeburnCane]

So now, age/youth is an excuse for not making good grades in the grade level your age places you in? It's not like we're asking a 3rd grader to do Pre-Cal. I'm saying get good grades at your grade level that you're supposed to be in, which is your responsibility to do so. If a kid struggles--hold them back (redshirt them?). If they need more time, then not being on a playing field/court allows them to have more time to study and hopefully comprehend the subject matters being taught.

I simply don't see the issue in asking a (for example) 3rd grader to do well on 3rd grade level work in order to see the field/court when it comes to sports. It's like Chris Rock talking about some dumbarse guy in his neighborhood saying "I take care of my kids!"...that's what you're supposed to do! You don't get a gold star for doing stuff you're SUPPOSED to do!

[Biggin]

So now, age/youth is an excuse for not making good grades in the grade level your age places you in? It's not like we're asking a 3rd grader to do Pre-Cal. I'm saying get good grades at your grade level that you're supposed to be in, which is your responsibility to do so. If a kid struggles--hold them back (redshirt them?). If they need more time, then not being on a playing field/court allows them to have more time to study and hopefully comprehend the subject matters being taught.

I simply don't see the issue in asking a (for example) 3rd grader to do well on 3rd grade level work in order to see the field/court when it comes to sports. It's like Chris Rock talking about some dumbarse guy in his neighborhood saying "I take care of my kids!"...that's what you're supposed to do! You don't get a gold star for doing stuff you're SUPPOSED to do!

What he is saying that in some cases, kids need remedial classes and such, and it doesnt get diagnosed or caught until after the elementary level.


and what about my question?

if a kid is only capable of a C, how can you punish them for not getting A's?

how are you gonna be able to differentiate? you cant, thats why its up to the parents at the younger level

until the HS level, sports should have nothing to do with monitoring a kids education, that is for the parents to do, and if they dont, their kids suffer, but you simpy cant make grades count in the little leagues and stuff because all kids are different, and a LL coach is there to teach the kids about baseball and sportsmanship.

Education is in the home at that level. To try and make a kid accountable to a LL coach for their grades at that level is just not possible IMO

[sup-rbeast]

Here's my take on it...if a kid's parents pay a fee for the kid to play (Little League, P-Nut Football, etc.) the kid should see the field. But, if the kid isn't one of the best players, he should see minimal playing time set forth by the league. I know in P-Nut football when I was growing up kids 8-10 were eligible for crunch bunch and 10-12 were eligible to play with the regular P-Nut team. The 10 year olds determined their placement by their ability. Plus, the crunch bunch only played at halftime of the regular games. In Little League Baseball, players who weren't very good still got to play 2 innings in the field and (hopefully) got at least 1 at bat. IMO, that's plenty in a game situation...cuz on the field in a game isn't where a player gets better..that happens on the practice field. As far as scores go, I think score should be kept on all levels of play. Teach the players early on that their performance or lack thereof will be displayed on the score board...and that only the winners will get to hoist a trophy in the end. That's how life lessons are taught through sports. When players graduate from a level of play, IMO it's OK to give 'em something to recognize that (patch, certificate, etc) but save the trophies for the winners. I don't know how it is now, but back in the day even if you won a championship you didn't get a trophy. The only trophy was used year after year, and it was just engraved with your team's name and the year you won the championship and displayed in the school somewhere..the players got a little medal, a patch for participation and a patch for being champions..and that was it. But really, that's all they need.

[CoeburnCane]

if a kid is only capable of a C, how can you punish them for not getting A's?

Saying a kid is only "capable" of something sells them short, and it gives them an excuse all at the same time.

Eff excuses, eff selling kids short and accepting less than what one person thinks they're "capable" of. That's enabling someone to accept less than what they should be striving for. It allows them to settle, and when people settle, they don't reach their full potential, period. That's what's being done to kids everyday in this country.

It's the same premise with youth league coaches--Little Jimmy Schoolbook is only "capable" of being my 8th batter and RF sub because he's not as gifted as Little Johnny Fivestar. Well...how do you know if you don't give him the same opportunities as Little Johnny Fivestar to pitch/bat 1st? You don't know what that kid is truly capable of if the only things you ever let him do are coach 1st base and carry the water bucket. But--hey, it's safe, and that's what he's "capable" of...so that's what we let him do.

Bullshart.

Plus, if a kid is only "capable" of making a C while participating in sports as per normal, wonder what would happen to that same kid if he were given less time on the field/court and that free time spent studying to get above that C? I'd say the motivation to play would do wonders for what he's "capable" of. Did I mention I hate that fargin word?

On top of that--I'm not even talking about a C student...I'm talking about these kids who barely scrape by on D's/F's and still play sports and look around and wonder why they're dumb as bricks when their dreams of being a star athlete go down the drain...OR why they can't qualify to go play sports at a college b/c they're not mentally able due to neglecting their studies b/c they were still allowed to play even though their grades were on par with a kid with mental retardation...OR even why when a college takes them to play a sport that they struggle to remain eligible and have their dreams dashed that way.

I'm just saying the C student wouldn't get as much PT as the A student, but they'd get more than the doofus with the excellent curveball but the crappy academic scores mired in the D's/F's. You want more PT than the kid with the A? Go make an A. Work hard, study, push your teachers and parents to give you the help you need to get you to where you want to be. Don't think you're just "capable" of one thing.

[7teen]

Over the past 2 years I have coached little kids (Kindergarten mostly) in both T-Ball and Flag Football, and keeping score is of no concern to them. My 5 year old has played both and is currently playing basketball and all he is concerned with is having fun and as coach my first concern was to make it as fun as possible and then to try and teach them some sort of fundamentals of the game. In my son's mind, they have never lost a game based on score. I let him believe whatever he wants because it isn't my concern as to what the score is. Usually the first things out of my mouth are "You played hard" and "Did you have fun?" As long as he plays hard and has fun at this age, that is all that matters.

Now as they get older, I think score should start counting. My best estimate would be around age 9 and/or 4th grade depending on how things are broken up. But even then, playing time should be mandatory unless it is an all-star team.

[sup-rbeast]

Players prove their capability in practice....that's where playing time should be decided. But face it, every player has a ceiling to his or her ability...their is a point where a player's skill gets as good as it's gonna get. I know in youth sports, the best doesn't always play..but that's cuz mommies and daddies run the show.

[Rocky]

Saying a kid is only "capable" of something sells them short, and it gives them an excuse all at the same time.

Eff excuses, eff selling kids short and accepting less than what one person thinks they're "capable" of. That's enabling someone to accept less than what they should be striving for. It allows them to settle, and when people settle, they don't reach their full potential, period. That's what's being done to kids everyday in this country.

It's the same premise with youth league coaches--Little Jimmy Schoolbook is only "capable" of being my 8th batter and RF sub because he's not as gifted as Little Johnny Fivestar. Well...how do you know if you don't give him the same opportunities as Little Johnny Fivestar to pitch/bat 1st? You don't know what that kid is truly capable of if the only things you ever let him do are coach 1st base and carry the water bucket. But--hey, it's safe, and that's what he's "capable" of...so that's what we let him do.

Bullshart.

Plus, if a kid is only "capable" of making a C while participating in sports as per normal, wonder what would happen to that same kid if he were given less time on the field/court and that free time spent studying to get above that C? I'd say the motivation to play would do wonders for what he's "capable" of. Did I mention I hate that fargin word?

On top of that--I'm not even talking about a C student...I'm talking about these kids who barely scrape by on D's/F's and still play sports and look around and wonder why they're dumb as bricks when their dreams of being a star athlete go down the drain...OR why they can't qualify to go play sports at a college b/c they're not mentally able due to neglecting their studies b/c they were still allowed to play even though their grades were on par with a kid with mental retardation...OR even why when a college takes them to play a sport that they struggle to remain eligible and have their dreams dashed that way.

I'm just saying the C student wouldn't get as much PT as the A student, but they'd get more than the doofus with the excellent curveball but the crappy academic scores mired in the D's/F's. You want more PT than the kid with the A? Go make an A. Work hard, study, push your teachers and parents to give you the help you need to get you to where you want to be. Don't think you're just "capable" of one thing.

if i ever meet you in person i want to shake your hand. thank you for that post,its whats wrong with America today, these kids are taught that they are only so good, that slacking is good enough. Ill tell you what if i could have scrounged up the 15000 dollars i needed to finish at ETSU i would have, i know that i didnt hit my full potential and it kills me. So in my eyes telling a kid that "he will never be good enough" is like putting a bullet in his head at the age of 9. I worked with children at fairmont elementary whose parents didnt want them, never helped them with homework or anything. I had a kid ask me to take him home with me because his mommy didnt want him. that kid couldnt read/do math when i started with him and he ended up the school year making decent grades and passing his class. You give a little push to a kid, a little encouragement, instead of just telling them that they are average........ and you will see miracles happen.